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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptics are an

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episode number 357 for the 23rd of

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August 2015 Richard Saunders here with

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Joe alavesa hello Joe hello Richard how

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are you today pretty good i'm still

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buzzing after last night because folks

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last night Joe and I went along to see

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Neil deGrasse Tyson I guess we could

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sort of say in concert really it was

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pretty rockin it was he was walking to

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it was a think ink event and thanks to

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thinking and the national geographic

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channel here in Sydney who helped us get

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some some tickets to the event yes Neil

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deGrasse Tyson for over two hours

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basically just just and living us coming

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up with science fact after science fact

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about Pluto about gravity answering

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questions are and the audience loved it

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they did indeed it was really vibrant so

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i think it was environment vibrant he's

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a good performers he is he seemed to

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really be enjoying himself actually two

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hours of being fairly excited he was and

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the host they had for the he was

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fantastic too it was it was Derek Miller

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who does the veritasium youtube channel

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and he's also been on television

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recently doing a documentary series

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which is produced by Sonia Pemberton who

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did jabbed about uranium that's correct

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yeah the taming the dragon hungover I

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think so people in Australia might have

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seen that one and I'm sure it'll be

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shown around the world cuz it's an

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excellent series about uranium and how

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it's changed our lives and how it works

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and the physics behind it and everything

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like that any last week you way into a

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bunker and all bunker in the United

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States and actually went through the

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process of food

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bookies and oh yeah it was a fascinating

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show anyway I'm digress Neil deGrasse

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Tyson fantastic show thanks again to

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National Geographic Channel and thinking

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and we look forward to future events and

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just as a reminder I was involved with

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the thinking people in December last

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year when we toured with the james randi

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anything changed rounded yes yes and you

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got to go along to that to Joe I did I

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felt incredibly lucky for that one yeah

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that was good that was great and just

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remind people that you can hear an

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interview that I conducted with neil

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degrasse tyson and andrea about the

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cosmos series that's a skeptic Zone

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episode number 27 9 which was in

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february2014 you can look that one up

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and how lucky were you to be able to get

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to do that that sounds like such an

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honor look well I'm not much hello can I

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look how dare you luck but what's coming

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up on the skipped exam this week we're

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going to kick off with an interview i

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did a little while ago with michael cruz

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from bad science watching canada he's

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going to be telling us about the

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government over there their crackdown on

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the wacky bizarre crazy loony toons one

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minute claims of homeopathy well I'm

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looking forward to that one did I put

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that succinctly Joe I think I didn't I

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don't think you can put it any better I

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think you're right after that it's the

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Ross get big report with Heidi Robertson

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now this is the first in a new series

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Heidi's doing about infectious diseases

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and the facts and the myths behind them

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it's really really interesting and this

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week she's going to start that series

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with a look at influenza and how serious

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it really is and she's going to be

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interviewing somebody who's lost family

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members to influenza goodness oh yeah

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serious stuff but really good

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information this week coming from Heidi

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Robinson then wiegand science from the

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royal institution offers through w WR I

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us WI you hello to all the wonderful

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people there and the round off the show

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a guest reporter Kevin Davies who's from

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the Canberra skeptics and aren't they an

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active group more about them later in

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the show actually Kevin chat stew

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Glenn Nagle the education and public

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outreach manager at the canberra deep

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space communications complex they are

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the people who send messages off to the

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Rovers on Mars and get messages from the

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program Pluto and all that sort of Oh

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fantastic Pluto you say Bluto is Neil

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deGrasse Tyson had a lot to say about

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Pluto last night indeed and a lot of

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people have a lot of strong feelings

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about Pluto oh it's heaps so it seems so

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that's what's coming up on the skeptic

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zone this week great to have you over

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here at skeptics own headquarters Joan

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glad you enjoyed last night and very

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happy to be here I think it's time that

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we both run downstairs making sure we

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don't trip over Fred the cat and he was

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just here a moment ago I don't know

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where he was just at our feet a moment

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ago making sure we don't trip over Fred

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to get we're going to run downstairs

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we're going to open the fridge open the

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pantry what are we going to find you I

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have no idea how about some pickled

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vegetables we can have with some Chinese

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duck are you cooking it I can try well

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while we attempt that cooking we hope

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joining me now from Canada Canada is

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Canada where I spent a few years when I

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was a very young boy indeed in

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Saskatchewan from bad science watch it's

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michael cruz hello Michael hello Richard

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it's great to be on the skeptic zone

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thank you it's been a while since you've

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been on the zone I think I think I think

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that according to skype I spoke to you

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may be elastic year ago perhaps or

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longer I don't know it's been a while

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anyways it's it has been a while now i

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thought i'd give you a cool catch up to

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find out how bad science which is going

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generally and also we can chat about a

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press release that came out on the

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fourth of august about homeopathic

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labeling but first of all how is bad

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signs watch going well if this is our

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third year I think maybe fourth years

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since we sort of launched back in 2012

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that would be three years I guess like

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you know math is of course a strong

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point um and I wear as a volunteer

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organization you always run the risk of

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you know burning yourselves out into a

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crisp doing all this work you know

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basically outside of a normal job but

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despite that fact our volunteers are

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working hard the board is stuck with us

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we're still you know raising month funds

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and doing work and talking to the press

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so all in all I'm pretty pleasantly

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surprised that we're continuing to do

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our work here in Canada and and things

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are going along rather swimmingly it's

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nice to hear now for the benefit of our

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listeners who may not know what is the

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general idea and the genesis of bad

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science watch such bad science watch is

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a grassroots organization in that we

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don't have any kind of parent company or

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didn't come from any sort of an offshoot

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from anywhere we're a collection of you

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know computer programmers and doctors

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and I'm a paramedic myself and we are

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focused on promoting or advocating for

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good science in public policy we saw a

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few years ago when we started this sort

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of a deficit of a really focused voice

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that was speaking truth to power here in

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Canada

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specifically in there in the area of

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health policy regulation that's sort of

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where we've come down on and we've

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really focused on the approval of

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natural health products and chosen a

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couple specific areas to target on

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certainly homeopathy homeopathic

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products was a big push for us back in

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2013 with her stop know so it's project

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we've also tackled things like the myths

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surrounding Wi-Fi radiation there's a

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very motivated group here in Canada who

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are trying to force the government to

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lower or two to increase make more

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stringent the levels of radiation from

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wireless devices like cell phones that

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you can be exposed to really counter to

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the science as we know it and so we've

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been fighting that battle as well but

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we've really been focusing and we will

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continue to focus further down on health

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product regulation and you know the

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regulations surrounding the approval of

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nose oats and certainly in our future

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the anti-vaccination movement can't help

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but agree with you there and again for

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the benefit of the people who may not

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know this stop knows org which is the

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website what is that about specifically

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what is the nose ode well homeopathic no

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soda is a preparation that starts with a

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piece of disease to tissue like pus or

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sputum or blood or yeah it's really

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delicious and then of course that that

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that comes from an individual who's

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suffering from specific infectious

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disease measles or pertussis whooping

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cough tuberculosis things like that and

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then that material is diluted in the

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normal homeopathic manner so there's

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nothing left of it in fact the current

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standards ensure or insist that any

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product that is produced that's from a

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node is produced in such a way as to

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ensure that there is no original

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ingredient in it welfare and then this

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yeah and then this is this product is

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used by homeopaths and other alternative

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medicine providers like natural paths

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and chiropractors it is used as part of

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a larger program to replace

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vaccines so it's used as a vaccine quote

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vaccine alternative in the way there's a

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couple different programs there's a

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there's a gentleman and golden from

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Australia actually has there's only

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doctor gold room yes yes you guys

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probably know but I'm very well we have

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a an American named Kate birch who has a

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similar program out of the US has been

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training people in Canada somehow she

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gets away with that and these programs

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are meant to replace the childhood

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vaccination schedule so instead of

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getting your proven safe and effective

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you know measles mumps and rubella

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vaccine at appropriate ages you're

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getting sugar pills to your child and of

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course there's no evidence that these

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work at all there's a you know plenty of

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a priori evidence to say that how many

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pathak preparations shouldn't work and

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yet despite a lots these are actually

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approved by Health Canada for sale in

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our great country it's amazing until

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what the situation is there generally if

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you go into the chemist shop of the

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pharmacy can you find homeopathic

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products on the shelf yeah most from

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mainstream pharmacists carry a certain

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selection of homeopathic pills the kind

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of rack with the individual remedies

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like sold by borrow or boiron as they

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say in the US you know that you won't

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really find a rack like that in most

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pharmacy and most mainstream pharmacies

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you will certainly see the products

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actually more in insidiously placed

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beside the products that work the

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mainstream box at work so for example

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you know the cough cold and flu remedies

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will have inserted in them the Oslo

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coxcomb flu homeopathic flu remedies as

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if they were of the same standard and

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00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:03,339
and level of efficacy so it's it's

273
00:12:06,350 --> 00:12:04,689
sometimes it's difficult for the

274
00:12:08,939 --> 00:12:06,360
consumer to actually tell the difference

275
00:12:10,429 --> 00:12:08,949
between those products we've certainly

276
00:12:12,929 --> 00:12:10,439
had another problem with cough cold

277
00:12:14,910 --> 00:12:12,939
medicines for children like cough

278
00:12:16,769 --> 00:12:14,920
medicines for children that up until

279
00:12:18,620 --> 00:12:16,779
this last iteration of the of the

280
00:12:22,740 --> 00:12:18,630
guidelines were actually able to be sold

281
00:12:25,819 --> 00:12:22,750
with an indication on them for cough and

282
00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:25,829
cold symptoms for children under 12 so

283
00:12:30,270 --> 00:12:27,400
instead of just being

284
00:12:33,150 --> 00:12:30,280
homeopathic preparation X they were you

285
00:12:36,540 --> 00:12:33,160
know cough medicine I'll me pathak cough

286
00:12:39,780 --> 00:12:36,550
medicine this was actually exposed by

287
00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:39,790
our CBC marketplace CBC's the Canadian

288
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,710
Broadcasting Corporation our national

289
00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:43,600
broadcaster and they did they have a

290
00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:44,980
consumer protection show called

291
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:46,720
marketplace that actually got one of

292
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:48,370
these cough cold medicines approved a

293
00:12:55,530 --> 00:12:51,330
fake medicine approved by Health Canada

294
00:12:58,590 --> 00:12:55,540
for use for children for cough and cold

295
00:13:00,720 --> 00:12:58,600
so the process is very very easy to get

296
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:00,730
through and not very stringent certainly

297
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:01,930
so you can find these medications

298
00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:04,240
everywhere they're easy to get at you

299
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:05,920
know the health food stores will have

300
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:08,560
more of a advanced selection you'll be

301
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:10,090
able to find the individual remedy so

302
00:13:14,220 --> 00:13:12,160
you can mix and match the availability

303
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:14,230
of no sodes is a bit more difficult to

304
00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:19,330
pin down influenza gnam 9 c which is the

305
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:22,510
flu no sewed becomes very popular

306
00:13:26,850 --> 00:13:24,130
obviously in the fall here when we have

307
00:13:29,310 --> 00:13:26,860
our flu season yeah and it certainly is

308
00:13:32,490 --> 00:13:29,320
sold as influence that I'm 9c by

309
00:13:35,790 --> 00:13:32,500
homeopaths and an pharmacists alike so

310
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:35,800
it sounds very much like the situation

311
00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:37,600
here in Australia where sadly if you

312
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:39,430
walk into your average chemist shop or

313
00:13:43,860 --> 00:13:41,650
pharmacy and you look around you will

314
00:13:46,950 --> 00:13:43,870
find homeopathic preparations for this

315
00:13:50,220 --> 00:13:46,960
and that are generally speaking in the

316
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:50,230
Canadian society is homeopathy popular

317
00:13:56,220 --> 00:13:53,170
is it a little bit alternative as we

318
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:56,230
might say is it accepted well there is

319
00:14:01,380 --> 00:13:59,440
certainly a staunch you know minority of

320
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:01,390
the population that that's support these

321
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:04,810
kind of therapies the use getting

322
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:07,450
marketing data on who specifically uses

323
00:14:13,710 --> 00:14:11,680
homeopathy is a bit difficult in that it

324
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:13,720
probably it would cost us several

325
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,730
thousands of dollars to sort of find out

326
00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:17,440
because nobody's really reporting on the

327
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:20,950
individual modality is openly run or in

328
00:14:25,860 --> 00:14:23,770
an open in an open sourced way but you

329
00:14:27,420 --> 00:14:25,870
know they're very popular you know

330
00:14:30,030 --> 00:14:27,430
natural remedies are certainly used by

331
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:30,040
at one point by the majority of the

332
00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:33,570
population we at vitamins supplements

333
00:14:40,319 --> 00:14:36,580
and including homeopathy I would say

334
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:40,329
that it's probably not as popular as

335
00:14:46,410 --> 00:14:43,360
more mainstream supplements but you know

336
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:46,420
that being said in Ontario we have our

337
00:14:52,169 --> 00:14:48,850
brand new Lee a newly minted College of

338
00:14:56,789 --> 00:14:52,179
homeopaths he is registering people to

339
00:14:58,289 --> 00:14:56,799
to be homeopaths legally legally able to

340
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:58,299
call themselves so many paths in Ontario

341
00:15:04,859 --> 00:15:01,360
and practice you know that was that was

342
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:04,869
a recommendation to her in Ontario to

343
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:08,290
our our regulator that the home be

344
00:15:11,429 --> 00:15:09,850
passed be regulated and then they've

345
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:11,439
started taking registrants as of April

346
00:15:14,939 --> 00:15:12,970
first so this is not something it's

347
00:15:17,489 --> 00:15:14,949
going to go away and it's certainly well

348
00:15:21,689 --> 00:15:17,499
it may be a minority of the population

349
00:15:23,699 --> 00:15:21,699
that that ascribes to homeopathy it

350
00:15:25,799 --> 00:15:23,709
certainly is of a concern and even

351
00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:25,809
greater concern there is a the public

352
00:15:30,359 --> 00:15:27,519
health agency of Canada which is the

353
00:15:33,239 --> 00:15:30,369
arm's length promoter for the vaccine

354
00:15:36,179 --> 00:15:33,249
and for vaccines and immunization they

355
00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:36,189
have data that shows that upwards of

356
00:15:39,809 --> 00:15:37,809
five percent of the population believe

357
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:39,819
that vaccines can be replaced by natural

358
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:42,970
methods and will offer protection so

359
00:15:49,229 --> 00:15:46,110
that's not an insignificant number and

360
00:15:51,210 --> 00:15:49,239
you know the the aggressive kind of

361
00:15:53,309 --> 00:15:51,220
sales techniques for the things like the

362
00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:53,319
hustla [\h__\h] numb or the influenza them

363
00:15:57,389 --> 00:15:55,929
certainly concern us that's for sure you

364
00:16:01,319 --> 00:15:57,399
probably hear the same sort of things we

365
00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:01,329
do here it's all natural it's it's

366
00:16:07,049 --> 00:16:04,089
devoid of chemicals it's Nature's Way

367
00:16:10,139 --> 00:16:07,059
it's all this sort of flowery weasel

368
00:16:13,499 --> 00:16:10,149
words they use yeah certainly there

369
00:16:14,999 --> 00:16:13,509
there is a we do have a dress as far as

370
00:16:16,769 --> 00:16:15,009
regulation goes we do have a Directorate

371
00:16:18,479 --> 00:16:16,779
call to market at Health Products

372
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:18,489
director which is supposed to sort of

373
00:16:23,340 --> 00:16:21,040
quash any kind of bad marketing but of

374
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,350
course their complaint based they don't

375
00:16:29,429 --> 00:16:25,360
you know we don't they're going after

376
00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:29,439
the the big fish and you know if you're

377
00:16:35,669 --> 00:16:32,470
going to get some homeopathic bc who's

378
00:16:37,789 --> 00:16:35,679
promoting you know flu no sodes it's

379
00:16:40,590 --> 00:16:37,799
kind of difficult to get their attention

380
00:16:42,989 --> 00:16:40,600
but yeah that's that's the kind of you

381
00:16:46,530 --> 00:16:42,999
know a point of view that the that's a

382
00:16:49,409 --> 00:16:46,540
natural health community takes and

383
00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:49,419
there's certainly knit very well within

384
00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:51,519
the larger anti-vaccination community

385
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:54,190
yes that are promoting all of the same

386
00:16:59,960 --> 00:16:56,890
I'm kind of memes that you know about

387
00:17:03,240 --> 00:16:59,970
the autism gamut is still alive you know

388
00:17:06,059 --> 00:17:03,250
and and they're still you know enough

389
00:17:07,530 --> 00:17:06,069
people that are choosing those those

390
00:17:10,679 --> 00:17:07,540
modalities that is to be worried about

391
00:17:12,059 --> 00:17:10,689
even more importantly we more

392
00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:12,069
convincingly we have a public health

393
00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:13,870
nurse that joined as a volunteer we're

394
00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:16,030
working on a specific project to to

395
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:17,350
tackle the sanity back the larger

396
00:17:22,590 --> 00:17:19,930
question of anti-vaccination and she's

397
00:17:25,740 --> 00:17:22,600
from the Western Canada and the they

398
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:25,750
have it's not uncommon for a public

399
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:28,089
health nurse who in the western

400
00:17:33,180 --> 00:17:30,400
provinces takes care of vaccinations to

401
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:33,190
have a parent come in in order to prove

402
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:35,290
that their child is vaccinated to

403
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:36,640
produce a note from their homeopath

404
00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:37,810
saying they've had all of their

405
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:40,030
homeopathic vaccinations they're good to

406
00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:42,160
go they can go to school and it's the

407
00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:44,440
unfortunate yeah it's it's it's not

408
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:47,500
uncommon and it's unfortunate ly down to

409
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:48,610
the public health nurse to say you know

410
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:50,650
what this is not real medicine you can't

411
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:52,720
use this and of course that kind of

412
00:17:57,210 --> 00:17:55,090
relationship is not one that we're used

413
00:18:00,300 --> 00:17:57,220
to having where the where you have to

414
00:18:02,070 --> 00:18:00,310
sort of challenge somebody's oftentimes

415
00:18:05,130 --> 00:18:02,080
deeply held beliefs about the medicine

416
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:05,140
they choose for the kids and that kind

417
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:07,810
of interface between provider and parent

418
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:09,310
is one that we're trying to target in

419
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:12,190
our upcoming programs as well that's

420
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:14,110
staggering that that's just amazing that

421
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:16,210
the parents would front up with a note

422
00:18:20,790 --> 00:18:19,450
from their homeopaths attitude that to

423
00:18:22,860 --> 00:18:20,800
make that statements that's Wow

424
00:18:24,660 --> 00:18:22,870
sometimes my jaw hits the ground here

425
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:24,670
folks when I'm interviewing people on

426
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:27,490
the skeptics herded and that was one of

427
00:18:30,930 --> 00:18:29,710
them but I hope there's some good news

428
00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:30,940
and we can refer to the press release

429
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:33,700
put out by bad science watch on August

430
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:38,050
the 4th relating to possibly stronger

431
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:43,330
warning labels yeah up thanks to not

432
00:18:47,970 --> 00:18:44,890
only I mean bad science watch brought

433
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:47,980
this subject up into 2013 but after we

434
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:49,450
started making allies in the public

435
00:18:52,620 --> 00:18:51,280
health community we found out that you

436
00:18:54,330 --> 00:18:52,630
know we weren't the first ones to bring

437
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:54,340
this up we may be in the first ones

438
00:18:57,540 --> 00:18:55,810
targeting the public and trying to make

439
00:18:59,490 --> 00:18:57,550
noise about this but certainly Alberta

440
00:19:01,320 --> 00:18:59,500
Public Health bc Centers for Disease

441
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:01,330
Control and the West because they had

442
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:02,850
dealt with this issue as i said before

443
00:19:08,010 --> 00:19:05,770
had reported their their concern to

444
00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:08,020
health canada to say look these no sodes

445
00:19:13,770 --> 00:19:10,150
are being used as vaccine placements and

446
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:13,780
they are you know ineffective dangerous

447
00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:16,210
please pull them from the shelves and so

448
00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:18,190
we made the same argument and and had a

449
00:19:23,310 --> 00:19:20,590
bit of movement they ended up putting a

450
00:19:24,930 --> 00:19:23,320
label in 2013 on the or or the

451
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:24,940
regulation said that labels had to have

452
00:19:29,130 --> 00:19:27,280
the the wording quote this product is

453
00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:29,140
neither a vaccine or and an alternative

454
00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:31,480
to vaccination that of course is you

455
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:34,390
know was a big was a six was a success

456
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:37,510
for us in that the they'll it was the

457
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:39,090
first time that Health Canada kind of

458
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:41,440
admitted that these products should not

459
00:19:44,940 --> 00:19:43,510
be used for these these purposes but of

460
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:44,950
course they didn't pull them from the

461
00:19:50,190 --> 00:19:47,290
shelves now subsequent to that period

462
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,200
there been op-eds in the canadian

463
00:19:54,530 --> 00:19:52,240
medical association journal and this

464
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:54,540
spring there was a very strongly worded

465
00:20:00,900 --> 00:19:56,890
position paper by the canadian theatric

466
00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:00,910
society saying look no so it should not

467
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:03,190
be used we you know we have great

468
00:20:06,150 --> 00:20:04,810
reservations about them there's no

469
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:06,160
evidence they work please do not

470
00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:08,290
vaccinate your children with no suits

471
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:09,900
they don't work there unprotected and

472
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:12,730
that in concert with the cbc marketplace

473
00:20:16,380 --> 00:20:14,650
who's done a couple programs now they

474
00:20:19,050 --> 00:20:16,390
actually did a hidden camera thing last

475
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:19,060
fall where they actually had a parent go

476
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:22,150
into homeopath and they were given

477
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:26,050
information by the homeopath that was

478
00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:29,110
anti backs and you know suggested that

479
00:20:35,250 --> 00:20:31,000
no suits could be used to treat your

480
00:20:38,550 --> 00:20:35,260
child and that combined with our work I

481
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:38,560
think you know pushed Health Canada to

482
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:41,290
the limits this year now they didn't

483
00:20:47,910 --> 00:20:43,570
unfortunately pull the products from the

484
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:47,920
shelves this this is a very thorny issue

485
00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:49,690
what after you've after the products are

486
00:20:54,780 --> 00:20:53,350
out there you know you can the the

487
00:20:55,980 --> 00:20:54,790
producers can come back to health canada

488
00:20:58,610 --> 00:20:55,990
said well you approved us before what

489
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:58,620
now like you know we gave you our

490
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:00,400
paragraph from the homeopathic

491
00:21:05,130 --> 00:21:02,170
pharmacopoeia which is all you need to

492
00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:05,140
get approval right under the traditional

493
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:07,480
use guidelines not any evidence and so

494
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:08,890
we can sell these products so why don't

495
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:11,050
you let us sell them so what they did in

496
00:21:13,950 --> 00:21:12,640
fact this April was that the health

497
00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:13,960
minister or the Minister of Health Rona

498
00:21:17,810 --> 00:21:15,700
Ambrose put out a statement saying that

499
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:17,820
the new labels will be the following now

500
00:21:21,410 --> 00:21:20,290
imagine getting this onto a small tube

501
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:21,420
of sugar pills but just

502
00:21:26,180 --> 00:21:24,090
with me for one second it says quote

503
00:21:28,490 --> 00:21:26,190
this product is neither a vaccine nor an

504
00:21:30,050 --> 00:21:28,500
alternative to vaccination and it goes

505
00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:30,060
on this product has not been proven to

506
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:31,860
prevent infection Health Canada does not

507
00:21:34,940 --> 00:21:33,360
recommend its using children and advice

508
00:21:36,650 --> 00:21:34,950
is that you try to receive all routine

509
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:36,660
vaccinations so that's pretty strong

510
00:21:43,310 --> 00:21:41,310
wording so we're happy about that uh you

511
00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:43,320
know this is that you couldn't really

512
00:21:49,250 --> 00:21:46,380
put stronger warning on it they also at

513
00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:49,260
the same time put out which is a bizarre

514
00:21:55,870 --> 00:21:52,710
kind of admission that the process for

515
00:21:59,480 --> 00:21:55,880
approving these products is quite silly

516
00:22:00,620 --> 00:21:59,490
that they also put a statement saying

517
00:22:02,620 --> 00:22:00,630
that the Health Canada will no longer

518
00:22:05,090 --> 00:22:02,630
approve specific health claims on

519
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:05,100
homeopathic products for cough cold and

520
00:22:10,340 --> 00:22:08,460
flu for children 12 and under now

521
00:22:12,530 --> 00:22:10,350
there's about believe it or not there's

522
00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:12,540
a hundred and thirty-nine products that

523
00:22:16,790 --> 00:22:14,220
they have approved for cough cold and

524
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:16,800
flu for children under 12 what I was a

525
00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:18,450
bit staggered by as well I go that's a

526
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:19,860
lot of products to be you know you can

527
00:22:22,730 --> 00:22:20,970
imagine how many products you have in

528
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:22,740
your cough and cold you have in your in

529
00:22:26,210 --> 00:22:24,720
your super in your pharmacy there's 139

530
00:22:28,130 --> 00:22:26,220
of them homeopathic that are proved

531
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:28,140
anyways so they basically said oh well

532
00:22:30,860 --> 00:22:29,490
you know we're not going to prove these

533
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:30,870
products for specific health claims for

534
00:22:36,250 --> 00:22:34,620
that the unstated premise of course is

535
00:22:40,370 --> 00:22:36,260
that they are going to improve for other

536
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:40,380
categories specific health claims like

537
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:43,890
the the process for approval is really

538
00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:46,410
just silly it's they use what's called

539
00:22:52,130 --> 00:22:48,990
risk based assessments so if your claim

540
00:22:54,410 --> 00:22:52,140
is very low risk then the evidence you

541
00:22:57,020 --> 00:22:54,420
have to supply for it is also low risk

542
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:57,030
to get approval for homeopathic product

543
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:58,290
all you really have to show is that it's

544
00:23:02,930 --> 00:23:00,960
is calling his name which is not

545
00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:02,940
included in the claim so I can call

546
00:23:08,780 --> 00:23:06,990
something / tussin which is whooping

547
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:08,790
cough but I don't have to make any

548
00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:11,570
claims well the calling it / tussin is

549
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,300
the claim right it sounds like you're

550
00:23:20,180 --> 00:23:17,700
using it to prevent pertussis which is

551
00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:20,190
whooping cough and the same thing goes

552
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:23,430
for you know influencing them and other

553
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:26,640
another nose oats so the process is

554
00:23:31,550 --> 00:23:29,250
really just is it a bit of a joke you

555
00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:31,560
can get approval and under tend in as

556
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:32,910
little as 10 days for any kind of

557
00:23:35,940 --> 00:23:34,210
product that you want

558
00:23:37,650 --> 00:23:35,950
so it really is just a rubber stamping

559
00:23:40,260 --> 00:23:37,660
so well we're very happy that they put

560
00:23:43,950 --> 00:23:40,270
this labeling on the department really

561
00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:43,960
needs to look inwardly and and realize

562
00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:46,060
that they are approving things without

563
00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:48,760
any kind of scientific evidence it does

564
00:23:54,510 --> 00:23:52,150
really sound sadly similar to the story

565
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:54,520
here in Australia where to get a product

566
00:24:00,180 --> 00:23:57,730
listed as they call it in our system you

567
00:24:02,250 --> 00:24:00,190
really don't have to supply decent

568
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:02,260
evidence at all you can supply evidence

569
00:24:05,130 --> 00:24:03,310
to the effect at all it's been

570
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:05,140
traditionally used by people for

571
00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:07,210
thousands of years and here it is in

572
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:09,910
this book in that book so I'm sad to say

573
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:13,690
the situations are sadly similar but at

574
00:24:17,460 --> 00:24:15,610
least there's this health warning that's

575
00:24:19,770 --> 00:24:17,470
gone out and that that must be a step in

576
00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:19,780
the right direction and hold me up at

577
00:24:26,250 --> 00:24:22,630
the always strikes me is probably the

578
00:24:29,450 --> 00:24:26,260
classic case of people being completely

579
00:24:31,950 --> 00:24:29,460
deluded into thinking something is real

580
00:24:35,310 --> 00:24:31,960
there's been a slow watering down of

581
00:24:37,230 --> 00:24:35,320
what was originally a bit more of a

582
00:24:38,820 --> 00:24:37,240
robust system that I had you know

583
00:24:39,870 --> 00:24:38,830
high-level scientists working for them

584
00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:39,880
one of the scientists that used to work

585
00:24:43,170 --> 00:24:41,260
for Health Canada is one of our advisors

586
00:24:46,650 --> 00:24:43,180
dr. Brian Foster and he's a medical

587
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:46,660
chemist and is used to one of his

588
00:24:52,410 --> 00:24:49,290
specialties is is understanding how

589
00:24:53,670 --> 00:24:52,420
different herbal and organic compounds

590
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:53,680
interact with the liver and kidneys and

591
00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:56,010
and and that threats they pose to

592
00:25:00,660 --> 00:24:58,240
entering doing analysis to see if they

593
00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:00,670
pose a threat and you know they they

594
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:04,600
basically let go retired all of theirs

595
00:25:07,890 --> 00:25:06,250
of many of their senior scientists at

596
00:25:09,420 --> 00:25:07,900
Health Canada and we know that they

597
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:09,430
replace them with people like homie oh

598
00:25:15,330 --> 00:25:12,850
sorry naturopaths who may have a you

599
00:25:16,860 --> 00:25:15,340
know undergrad in a bachelor science but

600
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:16,870
they also have a naturopathic doctor

601
00:25:21,290 --> 00:25:18,490
specialty which means they are certainly

602
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:21,300
coming from a certain point of view and

603
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:24,370
you know that when you think about what

604
00:25:28,980 --> 00:25:25,840
the products are that they're proving

605
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:28,990
it's not surprising that the natural

606
00:25:32,550 --> 00:25:31,210
paths are being used to help you know

607
00:25:34,110 --> 00:25:32,560
prove them because they are the ones who

608
00:25:36,090 --> 00:25:34,120
are going to evaluate if these products

609
00:25:37,950 --> 00:25:36,100
are traditionally used but I don't think

610
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:37,960
we've ever like a natural path has ever

611
00:25:43,230 --> 00:25:39,970
met a remedy they don't like but they'll

612
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:43,240
use anything if you look at their scope

613
00:25:46,260 --> 00:25:44,470
of practice they'll use traditional

614
00:25:47,690 --> 00:25:46,270
chinese medicine homeopathy water

615
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:47,700
therapy occupy

616
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:51,690
sure you know and anything else herbal

617
00:25:57,470 --> 00:25:55,289
remedies and energy reiki like they'll

618
00:26:00,799 --> 00:25:57,480
use anything so those are not the people

619
00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:00,809
we want in charge but certainly so we're

620
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:02,070
going to continue fighting for this and

621
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:03,690
hopefully Health Canada you know through

622
00:26:07,940 --> 00:26:05,850
this constant pressure will will over

623
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:07,950
time make make their their process

624
00:26:12,399 --> 00:26:10,320
rigorous certainly we're not going to

625
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:12,409
give up just with this one small victory

626
00:26:16,100 --> 00:26:14,610
excellent that's that's good news I'm

627
00:26:18,409 --> 00:26:16,110
glad you're not going to give up because

628
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:18,419
we kept none of us can afford to give up

629
00:26:23,149 --> 00:26:21,600
there so much well what can we say

630
00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:23,159
there's so many interesting things out

631
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:27,240
there for us to confront not only in

632
00:26:33,710 --> 00:26:29,730
Australia but in Canada as well folks

633
00:26:37,340 --> 00:26:33,720
the website to visit is ww bad science

634
00:26:41,629 --> 00:26:37,350
watch see a CA for canada or where you

635
00:26:46,009 --> 00:26:41,639
can check out w WP no suits that's stop

636
00:26:48,019 --> 00:26:46,019
then in Oso des org to find out more

637
00:26:50,060 --> 00:26:48,029
information michael cruz thank you very

638
00:26:52,009 --> 00:26:50,070
much thank you for doing what you're

639
00:26:55,159 --> 00:26:52,019
doing in canada it's all part of a

640
00:26:57,230 --> 00:26:55,169
worldwide effort and who knows maybe in

641
00:26:59,210 --> 00:26:57,240
60 years when I'm interviewing you we

642
00:27:02,539 --> 00:26:59,220
can talk about how homeopathy is now in

643
00:27:04,430 --> 00:27:02,549
the history books ah yes one can only

644
00:27:15,789 --> 00:27:04,440
hope thanks Richard we really hope thank

645
00:27:21,769 --> 00:27:18,620
the skeptic magazine the journal from

646
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:21,779
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

647
00:27:29,299 --> 00:27:24,000
the world's second oldest skeptical

648
00:27:32,060 --> 00:27:29,309
magazine visit w WC apx com au and click

649
00:27:36,019 --> 00:27:32,070
the publication's League you can also

650
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:36,029
find their over 30 years on back issues

651
00:27:58,159 --> 00:27:39,360
free to download the skeptic magazine

652
00:28:07,570 --> 00:27:58,169
from Australian skeptics it's the raw

653
00:28:13,639 --> 00:28:11,120
hello everyone over the coming months

654
00:28:16,639 --> 00:28:13,649
I'll be talking about various infectious

655
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,649
diseases and the vaccines designed to

656
00:28:22,399 --> 00:28:19,440
protect us against them I'll cover the

657
00:28:24,049 --> 00:28:22,409
facts the myths and include some

658
00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:24,059
interviews with people who have been

659
00:28:30,340 --> 00:28:27,809
directly affected by these diseases this

660
00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:30,350
week I'll be talking about influenza and

661
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:32,940
interviewing Kelly a member of our

662
00:28:39,049 --> 00:28:35,130
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

663
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:39,059
group the information in this podcast is

664
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:41,970
all available on our website the

665
00:28:51,860 --> 00:28:43,890
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

666
00:28:54,490 --> 00:28:51,870
at ww nrvs info it was written by our

667
00:28:58,669 --> 00:28:54,500
very own dr. Rachel heap and

668
00:29:00,850 --> 00:28:58,679
fact-checked by Professor boy at NCI RS

669
00:29:04,090 --> 00:29:00,860
that's the National Center for

670
00:29:06,980 --> 00:29:04,100
immunization research and surveillance

671
00:29:11,180 --> 00:29:06,990
let's start with some facts about the

672
00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:11,190
influenza disease influenza is a

673
00:29:18,049 --> 00:29:14,190
contagious viral disease it is estimated

674
00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:18,059
that there are an average of over 13 and

675
00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:19,830
a half thousand hospitals

676
00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:22,710
realizations due to influenza per year

677
00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:25,860
in Australia and over 3,000 deaths per

678
00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:28,470
year in australians aged over 50 years

679
00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:31,950
old more severe disease commonly occurs

680
00:29:38,149 --> 00:29:34,559
in those with underlying diseases such

681
00:29:42,139 --> 00:29:38,159
as asthma emphysema obesity heart

682
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:42,149
disease diabetes the elderly and in

683
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:44,010
those of Aboriginal and Torres Strait

684
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:46,850
island heritage and in pregnant women

685
00:29:53,149 --> 00:29:50,490
however influenza can be fatal even in

686
00:29:56,139 --> 00:29:53,159
the young fit and healthy with no

687
00:29:58,970 --> 00:29:56,149
underlying medical problems the virus

688
00:30:01,850 --> 00:29:58,980
there are various types of influenza

689
00:30:05,779 --> 00:30:01,860
virus broadly they are classified in two

690
00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:05,789
types a B and C with a and b more

691
00:30:13,009 --> 00:30:09,480
commonly involved in human disease both

692
00:30:15,049 --> 00:30:13,019
influenza A and B viruses undergo

693
00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:15,059
frequent changes in their surface

694
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:17,700
antigens this results in a phenomenon

695
00:30:22,669 --> 00:30:20,850
known as antigenic drift which means

696
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:22,679
that from year to year the influenza

697
00:30:28,340 --> 00:30:26,010
virus is subtly different it is because

698
00:30:30,830 --> 00:30:28,350
of this change in antigenic appearance

699
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:30,840
that the virus can evade an immune

700
00:30:36,350 --> 00:30:33,090
system that has been previously exposed

701
00:30:38,210 --> 00:30:36,360
through disease or vaccination it is for

702
00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:38,220
this reason that the flu vaccine is

703
00:30:43,070 --> 00:30:40,710
subtly different every year and it is

704
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:43,080
for this reason that yearly vaccinations

705
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:44,940
are advocated under the right

706
00:30:51,019 --> 00:30:48,090
circumstances a new subtype of influenza

707
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:51,029
can emerge when this type of major

708
00:30:57,740 --> 00:30:53,610
change in the influenza virus occurs it

709
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:57,750
is known as antigenic shift because the

710
00:31:02,539 --> 00:31:00,000
immune system has never been exposed to

711
00:31:05,299 --> 00:31:02,549
viruses of this new subtype before and

712
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:05,309
has no ability to recognize it and

713
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:08,370
combat it the virus tends to cause very

714
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:10,559
severe infections with a high mortality

715
00:31:19,090 --> 00:31:14,159
rate this kind of change can lead to

716
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:19,100
influenza pandemics how contagious is it

717
00:31:25,159 --> 00:31:22,529
the severity of flu seasons vary from

718
00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:25,169
year to year depending on the

719
00:31:31,639 --> 00:31:28,110
circulating virus and the susceptibility

720
00:31:33,410 --> 00:31:31,649
of the population for example there are

721
00:31:36,580 --> 00:31:33,420
over 10,000 cases

722
00:31:41,210 --> 00:31:36,590
in Australia in the first half of 2011

723
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:41,220
compared with approximately 1574 the

724
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:46,320
same period in 2010 during regular

725
00:31:51,170 --> 00:31:48,930
seasonal influenza the attack rate

726
00:31:54,380 --> 00:31:51,180
within the community is generally five

727
00:31:56,420 --> 00:31:54,390
to ten percent that is five to ten

728
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:56,430
percent of the population catch it when

729
00:32:02,750 --> 00:32:00,000
it is going around during pandemic years

730
00:32:05,540 --> 00:32:02,760
the attack rate can be as high as twenty

731
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:05,550
to twenty-five percent and will be two

732
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:07,650
to three times higher for clothes

733
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:10,770
household contacts the influenza

734
00:32:17,870 --> 00:32:15,120
pandemic of 1918 to 1919 killed more

735
00:32:19,970 --> 00:32:17,880
people than World War one it is not

736
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:19,980
certain how many people died but

737
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:23,250
estimates are as high as 50 to 100

738
00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:26,010
million people it is thought that about

739
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:28,140
twenty-five percent of the world's

740
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:32,910
population was infected now to the

741
00:32:38,390 --> 00:32:36,090
vaccine the composition of vaccines for

742
00:32:40,730 --> 00:32:38,400
use in Australia is determined annually

743
00:32:44,150 --> 00:32:40,740
by the Australian influenza vaccine

744
00:32:46,340 --> 00:32:44,160
committee influenza vaccines normally

745
00:32:49,420 --> 00:32:46,350
contain three recommended strains of

746
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:49,430
virus to influenza a subtypes and

747
00:32:56,150 --> 00:32:52,650
influenza B representing currently

748
00:32:58,340 --> 00:32:56,160
circulating viruses the effectiveness of

749
00:33:01,460 --> 00:32:58,350
the influenza vaccine varies from year

750
00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:01,470
to year depending on how closely matched

751
00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:03,240
the vaccine is to the circulating

752
00:33:08,930 --> 00:33:06,120
strains how virulent the circulating

753
00:33:10,970 --> 00:33:08,940
strain is and of course the immuno

754
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:10,980
competence of the person receiving the

755
00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:14,370
vaccine on average however the influenza

756
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:16,500
vaccine is sixty to eighty five percent

757
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,530
effective at preventing disease in young

758
00:33:26,090 --> 00:33:21,840
children and about sixty percent

759
00:33:28,370 --> 00:33:26,100
effective in adults influenza vaccines

760
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:28,380
are recommended for all people over the

761
00:33:35,210 --> 00:33:30,810
age of six months who wish to reduce

762
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:35,220
their risk of contracting influenza even

763
00:33:38,420 --> 00:33:36,930
more importantly there are certain

764
00:33:41,450 --> 00:33:38,430
people who really should be vaccinated

765
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:41,460
each year this includes the following

766
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:45,690
groups adults aged greater than or equal

767
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:46,770
to 65

768
00:33:53,060 --> 00:33:50,010
is Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

769
00:33:56,380 --> 00:33:53,070
people aged greater than or equal to 15

770
00:34:00,440 --> 00:33:56,390
years pregnant women immunocompromised

771
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:00,450
persons individuals aged greater than or

772
00:34:04,850 --> 00:34:02,970
equal to six months with specified

773
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:04,860
medical conditions that put them at

774
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:06,570
increased risk of influenza

775
00:34:13,010 --> 00:34:10,110
complications high risk background

776
00:34:15,230 --> 00:34:13,020
medical conditions include chronic

777
00:34:17,290 --> 00:34:15,240
respiratory and cardiac disease such as

778
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:17,300
asthma or coronary artery disease

779
00:34:22,820 --> 00:34:20,010
chronic neurological conditions such as

780
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:22,830
spinal cord injury or multiple sclerosis

781
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:26,399
and diabetes it is also important for

782
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:27,990
the following groups to receive the

783
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:30,450
vaccine all healthcare providers

784
00:34:36,139 --> 00:34:32,690
particularly those of immunocompromised

785
00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:36,149
patients staff or volunteers working in

786
00:34:41,020 --> 00:34:38,250
nursing homes staff or volunteers

787
00:34:43,930 --> 00:34:41,030
working in long-term care facilities

788
00:34:47,210 --> 00:34:43,940
household contacts including children

789
00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:47,220
greater than six months of age of those

790
00:34:52,909 --> 00:34:49,919
in high-risk groups staff working in

791
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:52,919
early childhood education and care staff

792
00:34:58,490 --> 00:34:54,960
or volunteers providing care to homeless

793
00:35:01,940 --> 00:34:58,500
people adverse effects to any

794
00:35:03,770 --> 00:35:01,950
vaccinations can and do occur however

795
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:03,780
these are usually very minor or

796
00:35:10,130 --> 00:35:07,050
extremely rare one to ten percent of

797
00:35:13,820 --> 00:35:10,140
people suffer from some fever malaise

798
00:35:15,890 --> 00:35:13,830
and myalgia which may mimic influenza

799
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:15,900
infection but this is mild and

800
00:35:20,930 --> 00:35:18,960
short-lived in children less than five

801
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:20,940
years of age these side effects may be

802
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:24,000
more pronounced a sore arm with redness

803
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:26,010
and swelling can occur at the injection

804
00:35:31,220 --> 00:35:29,040
site however most patients report that

805
00:35:34,690 --> 00:35:31,230
these events are transient and resolved

806
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:34,700
fully within a few days in 2010 an

807
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:37,680
excess of fever and febrile convulsions

808
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:40,560
following influenza vaccination was

809
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:43,050
reported in children aged less than five

810
00:35:47,930 --> 00:35:45,450
years particularly children aged less

811
00:35:51,020 --> 00:35:47,940
than three years this was associated

812
00:35:54,770 --> 00:35:51,030
only with one manufacturers vaccine flu

813
00:35:57,740 --> 00:35:54,780
vax and flu vax jr. by CSL limited and

814
00:35:59,859 --> 00:35:57,750
this vaccine is no longer registered for

815
00:36:01,690 --> 00:35:59,869
use in children aged less than five

816
00:36:04,059 --> 00:36:01,700
is and is not recommended for

817
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:04,069
administration in children aged less

818
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:08,240
than 10 years immediate adverse events

819
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:11,930
such as hives are a rare consequence of

820
00:36:16,420 --> 00:36:14,240
influenza vaccination and probably

821
00:36:19,329 --> 00:36:16,430
represent an allergic response to the

822
00:36:21,989 --> 00:36:19,339
egg protein however even a history of

823
00:36:24,609 --> 00:36:21,999
anaphylaxis with eggs is not an absolute

824
00:36:27,039 --> 00:36:24,619
contraindication to the vaccination but

825
00:36:30,730 --> 00:36:27,049
should be done in consultation with a

826
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:30,740
medical provider a small increased risk

827
00:36:36,190 --> 00:36:33,440
of guillain-barre syndrome which is

828
00:36:38,589 --> 00:36:36,200
transient paralysis was associated

829
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:38,599
historically with one influenza vaccine

830
00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:42,650
in the United States in 1976 but since

831
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,190
then close surveillance has shown that

832
00:36:50,829 --> 00:36:47,839
guillain-barre syndrome occurs at a very

833
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:50,839
low rate of up to 1 in 1,000,000 doses

834
00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:53,599
of influenza vaccine and is more common

835
00:37:00,940 --> 00:36:57,710
after the influenza disease itself one

836
00:37:03,549 --> 00:37:00,950
of the most common myths you hear from

837
00:37:05,499 --> 00:37:03,559
people who have received the influenza

838
00:37:07,509 --> 00:37:05,509
vaccine in the past is that they will

839
00:37:12,430 --> 00:37:07,519
never get it again because it actually

840
00:37:16,109 --> 00:37:12,440
caused them to get influenza now this is

841
00:37:19,690 --> 00:37:16,119
actually impossible and I'm quoting

842
00:37:22,479 --> 00:37:19,700
straight from a meme again that dr.

843
00:37:27,279 --> 00:37:22,489
Rachel heap has written and which is

844
00:37:31,390 --> 00:37:27,289
available on our website and it reads as

845
00:37:33,729 --> 00:37:31,400
follows after a flu vaccine you may feel

846
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:33,739
a little unwell for a short time with

847
00:37:40,259 --> 00:37:36,170
symptoms such as a temporary mud fever

848
00:37:42,849 --> 00:37:40,269
and fatigue this is not influenza

849
00:37:45,759 --> 00:37:42,859
influenza is an illness that lasts for

850
00:37:48,849 --> 00:37:45,769
weeks and can lead to persistent high

851
00:37:51,970 --> 00:37:48,859
fevers prolonged muscle pain headache

852
00:37:55,450 --> 00:37:51,980
respiratory failure cardiac failure and

853
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:55,460
death the reasons why you might have

854
00:38:01,390 --> 00:37:57,650
flu-like symptoms after the influenza

855
00:38:03,489 --> 00:38:01,400
vaccine one you mount an excellent

856
00:38:05,470 --> 00:38:03,499
immune response to the vaccine which can

857
00:38:09,729 --> 00:38:05,480
make you feel mildly unwell for a short

858
00:38:12,190 --> 00:38:09,739
time to you caught influenza before the

859
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:12,200
vaccine had a chance to work it takes

860
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:13,650
two weeks for it to

861
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:17,490
maximum effectiveness three you caught a

862
00:38:22,579 --> 00:38:19,740
strain of influenza not covered by the

863
00:38:24,529 --> 00:38:22,589
vaccine the vaccine covers the strains

864
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:24,539
expected to be the most common and most

865
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:26,730
dangerous for the season but there are

866
00:38:37,940 --> 00:38:30,930
others and for you might just have a

867
00:38:40,220 --> 00:38:37,950
nasty cold so i'm here with kelly one of

868
00:38:42,319 --> 00:38:40,230
the members of our northern rivers

869
00:38:45,140 --> 00:38:42,329
vaccination supporters group how are you

870
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:45,150
today Kelly I'm good thanks ID that's

871
00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:47,460
good thanks for joining us as you know

872
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:50,270
where we're having a bit of a series on

873
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:52,880
vaccine-preventable diseases and

874
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:55,770
vaccinations and I wanted to interview

875
00:39:00,769 --> 00:38:57,930
people that had been personally affected

876
00:39:02,890 --> 00:39:00,779
by some of these diseases and you've got

877
00:39:05,930 --> 00:39:02,900
quite a story to tell us about your

878
00:39:07,940 --> 00:39:05,940
experiences with the influenza virus in

879
00:39:10,430 --> 00:39:07,950
particular Kelly would you mind by

880
00:39:12,529 --> 00:39:10,440
starting to tell us a bit about what

881
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:12,539
happened when you were a very small baby

882
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:15,930
with influenza yeah sure definitely I

883
00:39:22,510 --> 00:39:18,960
was one and ten months of age and my

884
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:22,520
mother passed away from influenza she

885
00:39:28,849 --> 00:39:26,160
was sick for a few days prior and had a

886
00:39:31,279 --> 00:39:28,859
bit of a nasty cough she went to visit

887
00:39:33,859 --> 00:39:31,289
her own mother a lot wrong with me and

888
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:33,869
her mom did say who you know Leslie you

889
00:39:38,450 --> 00:39:35,520
put a bad coffee she's going to the

890
00:39:41,029 --> 00:39:38,460
doctor and she replied with I'm okay the

891
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:41,039
big g's and look after me she never made

892
00:39:46,339 --> 00:39:43,710
the doctor's visit and three days later

893
00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:46,349
she had passed away in her bedroom which

894
00:39:50,059 --> 00:39:47,609
was actually their dream that I'd share

895
00:39:51,950 --> 00:39:50,069
as an infant in a cot next to her that's

896
00:39:55,420 --> 00:39:51,960
the information that I've been told from

897
00:39:58,370 --> 00:39:55,430
her mum yeah that must have been a

898
00:40:01,099 --> 00:39:58,380
dreadful a growing up without a mother

899
00:40:03,559 --> 00:40:01,109
and and B also knowing that your mother

900
00:40:06,799 --> 00:40:03,569
passed away in the same room as you when

901
00:40:09,559 --> 00:40:06,809
you were just very young yeah for wonder

902
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:09,569
what what I was thinking and how long I

903
00:40:14,539 --> 00:40:12,000
may have even there for and those are

904
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:14,549
things without anybody knowing but yeah

905
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,490
I have gone into much of that detail but

906
00:40:22,549 --> 00:40:19,680
yeah I of wondering about that situation

907
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:22,559
and you know now knowing it's you know

908
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:23,970
you do a bit more about those sorts of

909
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:25,650
things or maybe she should have gone and

910
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:27,390
seen the doctor but

911
00:40:32,359 --> 00:40:29,760
perhaps looking after a child children

912
00:40:34,970 --> 00:40:32,369
always become a priority yeah you can

913
00:40:37,609 --> 00:40:34,980
certainly understand i mean ourselves as

914
00:40:39,890 --> 00:40:37,619
mothers we always do tend to put our

915
00:40:43,309 --> 00:40:39,900
children before ourselves don't we and

916
00:40:45,740 --> 00:40:43,319
it's incredible how fast influenza can

917
00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:45,750
can affect people and she she clearly

918
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:47,910
went downhill go very quickly have you

919
00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:50,250
shared that story with many of your

920
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:52,380
friends or colleagues and what any and

921
00:40:56,089 --> 00:40:53,730
if you have what sort of been their

922
00:40:57,829 --> 00:40:56,099
reaction to it over the years I have

923
00:41:00,440 --> 00:40:57,839
probably had a bit of a chat to a few

924
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:00,450
friends and you know you can instantly

925
00:41:04,819 --> 00:41:03,210
see the look on their face thanks I

926
00:41:06,859 --> 00:41:04,829
think you know this sort of their jaw

927
00:41:08,750 --> 00:41:06,869
drops a little bit I've grown up knowing

928
00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:08,760
what I've known and I've become quite

929
00:41:11,870 --> 00:41:09,960
used to it so it's something I don't

930
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:11,880
really talk about a great deal because

931
00:41:15,230 --> 00:41:13,890
now I'm an adult but as a young child I

932
00:41:18,589 --> 00:41:15,240
used to think you know everyone's got a

933
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:18,599
parent and was what family and the

934
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:19,890
things they deal with their brothers

935
00:41:23,420 --> 00:41:20,970
sisters and all those sorts of things

936
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:23,430
and am I missing out on something you

937
00:41:28,190 --> 00:41:25,680
also had your your your own very close

938
00:41:29,329 --> 00:41:28,200
call with influenza I can you lead us

939
00:41:33,410 --> 00:41:29,339
through the story about what happened

940
00:41:35,539 --> 00:41:33,420
with that yeah I was auntie and I am

941
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:35,549
just finished one of my semesters at you

942
00:41:41,359 --> 00:41:38,400
the nursing and about three days later I

943
00:41:43,789 --> 00:41:41,369
just collapsed on the floor at home and

944
00:41:47,329 --> 00:41:43,799
I was taken off to a local hospital John

945
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:47,339
Flynn's in a week they're just done

946
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:48,930
monitoring me actually just add I

947
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:51,210
basically that the bug went up through

948
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:54,690
my vagus nerve and went straight to when

949
00:41:57,740 --> 00:41:55,920
my brand each making sort of you know

950
00:41:59,450 --> 00:41:57,750
she'll pass out and then I was just um

951
00:42:01,309 --> 00:41:59,460
was sort of probably unconscious for a

952
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:01,319
few days it just immature open whatever

953
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:02,640
they could do but and I suppose that

954
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:04,170
point you do sort of feel like it was

955
00:42:09,319 --> 00:42:06,690
given me death experience I think that I

956
00:42:11,779 --> 00:42:09,329
should do have the influenza I'm shot

957
00:42:13,130 --> 00:42:11,789
every so that was you know the wake-up

958
00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:13,140
call ER so hey look you know maybe you

959
00:42:18,109 --> 00:42:15,990
do need to keep have this result every

960
00:42:20,059 --> 00:42:18,119
year I'll get it I have a son who has SI

961
00:42:22,279 --> 00:42:20,069
so make sure he gets me a cheer so you

962
00:42:24,799 --> 00:42:22,289
actually ended up with a complication

963
00:42:26,990 --> 00:42:24,809
from influenza called pericarditis is

964
00:42:28,849 --> 00:42:27,000
that right that's correct that's an

965
00:42:30,890 --> 00:42:28,859
inflammation around the heart so that

966
00:42:32,749 --> 00:42:30,900
the virus actually traveled to your

967
00:42:36,529 --> 00:42:32,759
heart as well can you tell us how that

968
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,539
sort of impacts on your on your life and

969
00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:38,400
your career choices and sort of your day

970
00:42:44,450 --> 00:42:41,730
to day activities yeah but

971
00:42:46,130 --> 00:42:44,460
definitely says 6-8 months I didn't have

972
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:46,140
much energy I couldn't hardly watch the

973
00:42:52,099 --> 00:42:48,960
letterbox because it was physically

974
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:52,109
exhausting to do that and then if I did

975
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:53,310
something that was a little bit too much

976
00:42:58,060 --> 00:42:56,010
one day then I would be up for the next

977
00:43:00,500 --> 00:42:58,070
three and it just took forever so

978
00:43:02,450 --> 00:43:00,510
basically I ended up going back to Ellen

979
00:43:03,970 --> 00:43:02,460
another hospital allamanda had to find

980
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:03,980
somebody could sort of hobby out and

981
00:43:08,540 --> 00:43:07,170
they discovered that I had suffered the

982
00:43:10,460 --> 00:43:08,550
three months with some fluid and

983
00:43:13,310 --> 00:43:10,470
inflammation and the heart I just put me

984
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:13,320
on some medication to reduce their about

985
00:43:17,870 --> 00:43:15,119
twice a year I might actually have to go

986
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:17,880
on a dose again just to because it's

987
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:20,010
either a flu or causes more just being

988
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:21,359
tired and running around it's sort of

989
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:23,250
maybe perhaps builds up again then I

990
00:43:27,260 --> 00:43:25,170
just get the the pain and exhaustion

991
00:43:29,359 --> 00:43:27,270
around the heart again and then I just

992
00:43:31,970 --> 00:43:29,369
want to medication so and that's like 30

993
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:31,980
now so it can stay with you for quite a

994
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:33,930
long time I'm hoping you'll go away

995
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:36,000
someday but yeah I'm surprised it's

996
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:37,410
still around this long and so that's

997
00:43:41,180 --> 00:43:39,570
what I now have to live with is the fact

998
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:41,190
that I am do you get this pain around

999
00:43:46,460 --> 00:43:43,710
the harsh and and and catching up cold

1000
00:43:48,859 --> 00:43:46,470
would certainly you know make it all

1001
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:48,869
worse yes it must be quite frightening

1002
00:43:54,530 --> 00:43:51,119
to get that pain around the heart I

1003
00:43:56,060 --> 00:43:54,540
guess you know you can identify now what

1004
00:43:57,530 --> 00:43:56,070
it is and what's causing it but it must

1005
00:43:59,420 --> 00:43:57,540
still be quite frightening thing to

1006
00:44:01,340 --> 00:43:59,430
experience it does feel like you're

1007
00:44:03,620 --> 00:44:01,350
having a heart attack there's like a a

1008
00:44:05,180 --> 00:44:03,630
stabbing pain and then in the back and

1009
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:05,190
the shoulder arms down the left arm in

1010
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:06,720
jaw so you're getting all those similar

1011
00:44:10,430 --> 00:44:09,119
sensations but it's some information of

1012
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:10,440
the heart trying to make sure that you

1013
00:44:14,599 --> 00:44:11,520
know you put yourself at ease at hey

1014
00:44:16,310 --> 00:44:14,609
look I'm not going to die I'm okay let

1015
00:44:18,140 --> 00:44:16,320
have you had a check but you just be

1016
00:44:20,660 --> 00:44:18,150
aware that and particular when things

1017
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:20,670
get get tired so and I've actually

1018
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:22,050
become a member to a couple of

1019
00:44:25,010 --> 00:44:23,850
pericarditis groups which are found on

1020
00:44:26,660 --> 00:44:25,020
facebook and they've been very helpful

1021
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:26,670
with resources because there's only a

1022
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:28,560
lot of information out there but of how

1023
00:44:31,550 --> 00:44:30,090
to deal with it and some of the things

1024
00:44:32,750 --> 00:44:31,560
I've found that work really well is

1025
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:32,760
actually sleeping on my chest where I'm

1026
00:44:37,700 --> 00:44:36,000
having a week or so and attack whether

1027
00:44:39,590 --> 00:44:37,710
it just puts the fluid into another part

1028
00:44:41,180 --> 00:44:39,600
and helps the body to absorb but I don't

1029
00:44:44,540 --> 00:44:41,190
know it but it's just the friction and

1030
00:44:46,940 --> 00:44:44,550
the pericarditis actually correct me if

1031
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:46,950
I'm wrong but it actually restricted

1032
00:44:51,620 --> 00:44:49,920
your made you think twice about a career

1033
00:44:54,830 --> 00:44:51,630
in nursing as well is that right that's

1034
00:44:57,590 --> 00:44:54,840
correct I'm now more susceptible when I

1035
00:44:59,060 --> 00:44:57,600
for having an attack and I'll worry

1036
00:45:00,980 --> 00:44:59,070
about what would the next attack

1037
00:45:03,140 --> 00:45:00,990
actually do to my heart because some

1038
00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:03,150
outcomes up very good so yes

1039
00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:04,800
unfortunately I stopped doing those

1040
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:06,360
infants the book would have had to have

1041
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:08,160
gone on placement and being places where

1042
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:09,330
there's lots of bacterias and viruses

1043
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:11,610
and then I would have been susceptible

1044
00:45:17,810 --> 00:45:13,680
and probably beginning sick again so I

1045
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:17,820
my head taken career change mmm yeah yes

1046
00:45:23,150 --> 00:45:19,770
had to reassess pretty much everything

1047
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:23,160
it's amazing what an effect influencer

1048
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:26,370
has had first of all with with losing

1049
00:45:32,090 --> 00:45:28,730
your mother at such a young age and then

1050
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:32,100
impacting on yourself and your career

1051
00:45:36,940 --> 00:45:34,650
and one great thing that has come out of

1052
00:45:39,710 --> 00:45:36,950
it is that you're now a proud

1053
00:45:42,890 --> 00:45:39,720
vaccination advocate and supporter and

1054
00:45:44,660 --> 00:45:42,900
in sharing your story I think it's going

1055
00:45:47,330 --> 00:45:44,670
to be really enlightening and really

1056
00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:47,340
helpful for other people who who don't

1057
00:45:51,830 --> 00:45:49,500
realize perhaps until hearing your story

1058
00:45:55,220 --> 00:45:51,840
about just how important it is to get

1059
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:55,230
your annual influenza vaccine so thank

1060
00:46:00,050 --> 00:45:58,170
you so much for sharing your story what

1061
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:00,060
would you say to two people that are

1062
00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:03,060
still have doubts about having their

1063
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:05,730
annual influenza vaccine it is truly

1064
00:46:10,580 --> 00:46:08,310
truly important because it can just take

1065
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:10,590
somebody walking past you it's going to

1066
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:12,090
have a little cough and those little

1067
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:14,370
tiny airborne droplets you'll get very

1068
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:16,770
very sick and you may not have time to

1069
00:46:21,140 --> 00:46:17,910
say goodbye to someone that you love

1070
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:21,150
because they came for you mmm well thank

1071
00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:22,770
you kelly thank you very much for your

1072
00:46:27,350 --> 00:46:24,630
time that's right Thank you Thank You

1073
00:46:29,450 --> 00:46:27,360
Heidi all the information as I said

1074
00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:29,460
given in these podcasts can be found on

1075
00:46:36,380 --> 00:46:33,270
our website and rvs dot info and we're

1076
00:46:48,650 --> 00:46:36,390
also on Facebook and Twitter thanks

1077
00:46:53,550 --> 00:46:51,330
welcome to weaken science from our oz

1078
00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:53,560
bringing you the signs you need to know

1079
00:46:59,010 --> 00:46:56,710
our obsession with cake is never ending

1080
00:47:06,180 --> 00:46:59,020
but did you know how much science is

1081
00:47:07,860 --> 00:47:06,190
involved in every piece firstly let's

1082
00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:07,870
look at the role of each ingredients in

1083
00:47:12,210 --> 00:47:09,520
making your piece of cake lice and

1084
00:47:14,340 --> 00:47:12,220
fluffy starting with sugar when you

1085
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:14,350
cream butter and sugar together air gets

1086
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:15,970
trapped on the rough surface of the

1087
00:47:20,580 --> 00:47:18,250
sugar crystals giving you a foamy better

1088
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,590
the fat in the busser coats these air

1089
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:22,480
bubbles helping to hold them in the

1090
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:25,210
mixture however when they heat up these

1091
00:47:29,940 --> 00:47:27,490
bubbles pop leave me with a flat and

1092
00:47:32,610 --> 00:47:29,950
dense cake but that's where eggs come in

1093
00:47:34,740 --> 00:47:32,620
the proteins also coat these air bubbles

1094
00:47:37,110 --> 00:47:34,750
when these proteins are heated they

1095
00:47:38,850 --> 00:47:37,120
Harden stopping the bubble from popping

1096
00:47:41,370 --> 00:47:38,860
and trapping the air inside the cake

1097
00:47:43,890 --> 00:47:41,380
baking powder is the last ingredient in

1098
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:43,900
making your cake lyson fluffy it's as a

1099
00:47:48,750 --> 00:47:46,090
mixture of bicarbonate of soda and cream

1100
00:47:50,970 --> 00:47:48,760
of tartar an alkali in an acid which

1101
00:47:53,370 --> 00:47:50,980
react with heat and water to form carbon

1102
00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:53,380
dioxide this helps expand those air

1103
00:47:57,140 --> 00:47:55,150
bubbles adding yet another level of

1104
00:48:00,480 --> 00:47:57,150
fluffiness

1105
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:00,490
so what role does flower have then well

1106
00:48:04,770 --> 00:48:02,890
flower proteins combine to form gluten

1107
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:04,780
which forms a stretchy web structure

1108
00:48:09,180 --> 00:48:07,119
through the cake as the air bubbles are

1109
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:09,190
expanding the gluten stretches to

1110
00:48:14,580 --> 00:48:11,530
contain them when the gluten reaches

1111
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:14,590
about 80 degrees it hardens preventing

1112
00:48:18,780 --> 00:48:16,210
the cake from collapsing inwards and

1113
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:18,790
maintaining its expanded shape leaving

1114
00:48:23,970 --> 00:48:21,520
you with a light fluffy cake the second

1115
00:48:25,830 --> 00:48:23,980
role of flowers to provide starch this

1116
00:48:28,349 --> 00:48:25,840
helps the egg proteins stay strong and

1117
00:48:31,050 --> 00:48:28,359
trap those air bubbles inside and form

1118
00:48:35,820 --> 00:48:31,060
the final texture of the cake and now

1119
00:48:37,620 --> 00:48:35,830
for fast facts about cakes cakes as we

1120
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:37,630
know them probably only came about in

1121
00:48:42,450 --> 00:48:40,090
the 18th or 19th century with the advent

1122
00:48:45,180 --> 00:48:42,460
of baking powders replacing yeast as the

1123
00:48:48,570 --> 00:48:45,190
leavening agent some people add Sultan's

1124
00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:48,580
cakes salt in sweet what but it does

1125
00:48:53,220 --> 00:48:50,640
help strengthen that gluten structure

1126
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:53,230
despite saying that gluten is vital for

1127
00:48:57,210 --> 00:48:55,450
creating the structure of the cake too

1128
00:48:59,609 --> 00:48:57,220
much gluten can result in a heavy

1129
00:49:02,550 --> 00:48:59,619
texture the amount of butter helps

1130
00:49:04,830 --> 00:49:02,560
control that reaction and sugar also

1131
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:04,840
helps the caramelization reaction called

1132
00:49:09,420 --> 00:49:07,119
my yard reaction giving that golden

1133
00:49:11,970 --> 00:49:09,430
surface on top that's it for this week

1134
00:49:14,010 --> 00:49:11,980
in science for more information on the

1135
00:49:18,330 --> 00:49:14,020
science of baking sink your sweet tooth

1136
00:49:21,359 --> 00:49:18,340
into the RLS websites are I aus org a

1137
00:49:24,300 --> 00:49:21,369
you follow us on twitter at ra oz and

1138
00:49:42,670 --> 00:49:24,310
like us on facebook i'm ben lewis and

1139
00:49:48,260 --> 00:49:46,250
I'm Gregoire and I'm Dan beeston and

1140
00:49:50,750 --> 00:49:48,270
we're from smart enough to know better a

1141
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:50,760
podcast of science comedy and ignorant

1142
00:49:56,569 --> 00:49:53,520
and we're inviting you to our 100th

1143
00:49:58,910 --> 00:49:56,579
episode live show it takes place in the

1144
00:50:00,980 --> 00:49:58,920
first of September at seven p.m. at the

1145
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:00,990
brisbane powerhouse theatre and guess

1146
00:50:06,049 --> 00:50:03,690
what it's free it's a game show where

1147
00:50:08,329 --> 00:50:06,059
you get to win fabulous prizes just by

1148
00:50:11,180 --> 00:50:08,339
sharing your own stories of science

1149
00:50:14,420 --> 00:50:11,190
first of September 7 p.m. at the

1150
00:50:41,799 --> 00:50:14,430
brisbane powerhouse free free free check

1151
00:50:47,569 --> 00:50:44,690
well i'm here at King o'malley's irish

1152
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:47,579
club in civic in Canberra and who do I

1153
00:50:52,759 --> 00:50:50,130
have with me here tonight so I'm gonna

1154
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,769
go from the SRO Canberra deep space

1155
00:50:58,099 --> 00:50:54,960
communication complex part of NASA's

1156
00:50:59,180 --> 00:50:58,109
Deep Space Network and what brings you

1157
00:51:01,700 --> 00:50:59,190
here tonight what have you been

1158
00:51:03,620 --> 00:51:01,710
presenting to us too yes tonight we've

1159
00:51:06,019 --> 00:51:03,630
been doing a science in the pub looking

1160
00:51:09,309 --> 00:51:06,029
at Pluto and the encounter with that

1161
00:51:13,479 --> 00:51:09,319
dwarf world just a few weeks ago in July

1162
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:13,489
myself and with two amazing speakers

1163
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:15,599
Nobel Prize winner Professor Brian

1164
00:51:23,019 --> 00:51:19,170
Schmidt and dr. alan duffy an astronomer

1165
00:51:27,140 --> 00:51:23,029
from Swinburne University so what was

1166
00:51:29,269 --> 00:51:27,150
CSIRO's role in all of this okay so our

1167
00:51:31,339 --> 00:51:29,279
role is as part of NASA's Deep Space

1168
00:51:33,709 --> 00:51:31,349
Network so the CSR actually manages the

1169
00:51:36,049 --> 00:51:33,719
tracking station at it to develop now

1170
00:51:37,489 --> 00:51:36,059
job is to provide communications to all

1171
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:37,499
the spacecraft out across the solar

1172
00:51:41,029 --> 00:51:39,450
system so uplinking commands the

1173
00:51:42,799 --> 00:51:41,039
spacecraft only got where to go what to

1174
00:51:46,039 --> 00:51:42,809
do every day what much pressure into

1175
00:51:47,809 --> 00:51:46,049
this one what information to collect and

1176
00:51:49,459 --> 00:51:47,819
then send back home we get that

1177
00:51:51,410 --> 00:51:49,469
information we process at eliminating

1178
00:51:53,630 --> 00:51:51,420
all the random noise of the universe and

1179
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:53,640
just send the cleaned up signal off to

1180
00:51:58,459 --> 00:51:55,890
the Jet Propulsion labs on California

1181
00:52:01,019 --> 00:51:58,469
JPL and then they distribute it out to

1182
00:52:02,789 --> 00:52:01,029
the science team so then you know

1183
00:52:05,699 --> 00:52:02,799
make the discoveries and tell us what

1184
00:52:08,370 --> 00:52:05,709
they find so was it really nine years

1185
00:52:11,249 --> 00:52:08,380
between the launch and the first singles

1186
00:52:13,999 --> 00:52:11,259
yes oh the spacecraft launched in on the

1187
00:52:16,259 --> 00:52:14,009
19th of January 2006 so the journey was

1188
00:52:18,659 --> 00:52:16,269
5.3 billion kilometers nine and a half

1189
00:52:21,329 --> 00:52:18,669
years to get all the way to Pluto an

1190
00:52:22,649 --> 00:52:21,339
amazing rocket and you consider this is

1191
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:22,659
the master powerful rocket they put at

1192
00:52:29,279 --> 00:52:26,130
the time at launch from Cape Canaveral

1193
00:52:31,709 --> 00:52:29,289
it past the orbit of the moon just nine

1194
00:52:33,209 --> 00:52:31,719
hours after Lufthansa it was really

1195
00:52:35,939 --> 00:52:33,219
moving on the Apollo missions took four

1196
00:52:38,939 --> 00:52:35,949
days to get invested in in just 29 hours

1197
00:52:41,189 --> 00:52:38,949
and then it headed off to Jupiter for

1198
00:52:43,559 --> 00:52:41,199
rendezvous there just 13 months after

1199
00:52:45,749 --> 00:52:43,569
the launch normally that's a two-year

1200
00:52:47,669 --> 00:52:45,759
journey I got a gravitational kick from

1201
00:52:49,319 --> 00:52:47,679
Jupiter headed on now but we we had to

1202
00:52:51,989 --> 00:52:49,329
contact with it at various times every

1203
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:51,999
monday if phone home was a little beacon

1204
00:52:56,339 --> 00:52:54,130
call to say absolutely everything's okay

1205
00:52:58,409 --> 00:52:56,349
you know is anything want me to do and

1206
00:53:00,029 --> 00:52:58,419
that's you know it may occasionally did

1207
00:53:01,979 --> 00:53:00,039
seem various bits of science and lost

1208
00:53:05,069 --> 00:53:01,989
patience with some test runs at the

1209
00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:05,079
counter probably bad really the the big

1210
00:53:14,459 --> 00:53:09,689
moment was you know sort of a 1430 like

1211
00:53:20,069 --> 00:53:14,469
2015 and 949 and 57 seconds his base map

1212
00:53:22,319 --> 00:53:20,079
made its closest approach and what was

1213
00:53:23,669 --> 00:53:22,329
it like being in the room we're just

1214
00:53:25,319 --> 00:53:23,679
waiting for that signal it must've been

1215
00:53:28,019 --> 00:53:25,329
really really tense

1216
00:53:31,079 --> 00:53:28,029
yeah we actually the thing that we call

1217
00:53:33,420 --> 00:53:31,089
professional excitement we've got a job

1218
00:53:36,359 --> 00:53:33,430
to do the tension really is for the

1219
00:53:38,190 --> 00:53:36,369
science team you know over at the Johns

1220
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:38,200
Hopkins University are all crowded

1221
00:53:42,449 --> 00:53:40,569
around their screens and waiting for

1222
00:53:44,729 --> 00:53:42,459
particularly the phone home signal

1223
00:53:46,799 --> 00:53:44,739
because New Horizons were actually out

1224
00:53:49,769 --> 00:53:46,809
of contact with us during its entire

1225
00:53:51,390 --> 00:53:49,779
encounter with blue about 14 hours we

1226
00:53:56,039 --> 00:53:51,400
had the last contact here in Canberra

1227
00:53:58,680 --> 00:53:56,049
with it at about 9pm and so 49 minutes

1228
00:54:00,749 --> 00:53:58,690
and 57 seconds later the spacecraft was

1229
00:54:03,329 --> 00:54:00,759
busy doing its encounter turning its

1230
00:54:04,859 --> 00:54:03,339
instruments to look at the planet look

1231
00:54:07,229 --> 00:54:04,869
at the moons and learn everything you

1232
00:54:09,479 --> 00:54:07,239
can about it and whizzing past 55

1233
00:54:10,799 --> 00:54:09,489
thousand kilometres per hour and then

1234
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:10,809
we're all waiting for this phone home

1235
00:54:16,709 --> 00:54:13,119
signal which was coming the next morning

1236
00:54:19,019 --> 00:54:16,719
you know after the encounter and yeah

1237
00:54:20,910 --> 00:54:19,029
there was a lot of tension fortunately

1238
00:54:22,620 --> 00:54:20,920
in Canberra we were cut off the hook it

1239
00:54:24,329 --> 00:54:22,630
was our station over in Spain who was

1240
00:54:27,870 --> 00:54:24,339
responsible for it we've handed it over

1241
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:27,880
to them and watching the science team

1242
00:54:32,219 --> 00:54:29,680
world cuddle watching on screens at have

1243
00:54:34,439 --> 00:54:32,229
been a long night for us so we would i

1244
00:54:36,539 --> 00:54:34,449
but we were really just waiting has it

1245
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:36,549
all work we had the last contact we're

1246
00:54:40,229 --> 00:54:37,599
gonna have another contact through the

1247
00:54:43,370 --> 00:54:40,239
network the science team we happy bong

1248
00:54:45,779 --> 00:54:43,380
behold signal came in exactly on time

1249
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:45,789
since straight of JPL straight in the

1250
00:54:51,479 --> 00:54:48,640
science team the cheers that erupted not

1251
00:54:53,849 --> 00:54:51,489
only at the Mission Control Center JPL

1252
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:53,859
of course here in Canberra we were just

1253
00:55:00,160 --> 00:54:57,490
elated being part of history once again

1254
00:55:03,940 --> 00:55:00,170
so what was the first image that you saw

1255
00:55:06,370 --> 00:55:03,950
little piece of data so there was a

1256
00:55:10,030 --> 00:55:06,380
couple there was a couple of images one

1257
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:10,040
was the sort of the full face of Pluto

1258
00:55:14,050 --> 00:55:11,210
and this was actually a shot was

1259
00:55:15,339 --> 00:55:14,060
actually taken before the closest

1260
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:15,349
approach to the you can I was taking on

1261
00:55:20,230 --> 00:55:17,680
about 70,000 kilometers from the planet

1262
00:55:22,030 --> 00:55:20,240
but necessary held that back because I

1263
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:22,040
wanted to release it at the time when

1264
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:24,410
the space Vipers flying past would you

1265
00:55:27,580 --> 00:55:26,210
know so when we're out of contact people

1266
00:55:29,290 --> 00:55:27,590
are sort of going what's happening to

1267
00:55:30,910 --> 00:55:29,300
the mark that moment they show that call

1268
00:55:32,380 --> 00:55:30,920
hemisphere view and that that will be

1269
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:32,390
that the sort of shot will be in the

1270
00:55:39,010 --> 00:55:34,910
textbooks for the next 100 years or more

1271
00:55:42,460 --> 00:55:39,020
until we get new shots and then the next

1272
00:55:44,740 --> 00:55:42,470
shot to come back was the close-ups

1273
00:55:46,750 --> 00:55:44,750
surface shots and they all received in

1274
00:55:48,220 --> 00:55:46,760
camera and the closest some of the

1275
00:55:50,490 --> 00:55:48,230
closest to use of the surface there's

1276
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:50,500
still only a resolution of about sort of

1277
00:55:55,839 --> 00:55:54,050
1.3 kilometers per pixel we're going to

1278
00:55:58,180 --> 00:55:55,849
get much better stuff back these were

1279
00:56:01,089 --> 00:55:58,190
just quick snapshots that we've got you

1280
00:56:02,349 --> 00:56:01,099
know sort of Kodak moments we've got

1281
00:56:04,359 --> 00:56:02,359
much higher resolution stuff that's

1282
00:56:06,010 --> 00:56:04,369
coming down starting in September and

1283
00:56:07,570 --> 00:56:06,020
they will be getting down to about a

1284
00:56:09,820 --> 00:56:07,580
hundred meters per pixel resolution

1285
00:56:11,349 --> 00:56:09,830
across some parts of Pluto so it's a lot

1286
00:56:13,890 --> 00:56:11,359
more to come but seeing those first

1287
00:56:16,599 --> 00:56:13,900
images he took everybody's breath away

1288
00:56:18,579 --> 00:56:16,609
as we said tonight at the torque alan

1289
00:56:20,770 --> 00:56:18,589
duffy was saying that whoever thought

1290
00:56:22,420 --> 00:56:20,780
was just gonna be this frozen ball very

1291
00:56:25,950 --> 00:56:22,430
uninteresting but this thing had

1292
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:25,960
mountains and then that is a nice classy

1293
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:28,450
surface it's full of surprises this

1294
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:32,170
woman and we're all just stunned so how

1295
00:56:35,730 --> 00:56:33,970
did you say it was going we're gonna

1296
00:56:37,950 --> 00:56:35,740
keep getting data from it was about 16

1297
00:56:39,359 --> 00:56:37,960
months I believe yeah so the spacecraft

1298
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:39,369
starting in the September this year will

1299
00:56:46,410 --> 00:56:41,770
actually start down linking all of its

1300
00:56:48,870 --> 00:56:46,420
data on board and the the data rate is

1301
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:48,880
only about one the two kilobits one or

1302
00:56:53,250 --> 00:56:51,280
two kilobits a second so it's a fairly

1303
00:56:54,750 --> 00:56:53,260
low data rate we think we can up that a

1304
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:54,760
little bit too maybe four to six

1305
00:57:00,690 --> 00:56:57,280
kilobits a second a poor and that will

1306
00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:00,700
still take around about 12 to 16 months

1307
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:05,080
to downlink all the data and what's up

1308
00:57:11,940 --> 00:57:09,040
for you and for CSIRO in this regard in

1309
00:57:14,790 --> 00:57:11,950
the future what's next after the data is

1310
00:57:17,099 --> 00:57:14,800
downloaded what are the future plans

1311
00:57:19,050 --> 00:57:17,109
what do you rise in us will continue on

1312
00:57:20,940 --> 00:57:19,060
and we could have time to tackle it for

1313
00:57:23,730 --> 00:57:20,950
at least another 30 years maybe a couple

1314
00:57:25,230 --> 00:57:23,740
of more encounters in late too late part

1315
00:57:27,630 --> 00:57:25,240
of this decade and in the middle of the

1316
00:57:28,890 --> 00:57:27,640
next decade with some of the Kuiper belt

1317
00:57:31,410 --> 00:57:28,900
objects out there but of course we're

1318
00:57:32,599 --> 00:57:31,420
busy every single day we have over 40

1319
00:57:34,530 --> 00:57:32,609
missions out across the solar system

1320
00:57:35,700 --> 00:57:34,540
representing 22 different countries

1321
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:35,710
around the world that explore or

1322
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:38,770
exploring so we've got plenty you know

1323
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:40,330
we've got seven missions at Mars at the

1324
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:42,010
moment it's the traffic jam of the solar

1325
00:57:47,940 --> 00:57:44,890
system and we've got a new mission

1326
00:57:49,980 --> 00:57:47,950
launching to Mars in March the insight

1327
00:57:52,349 --> 00:57:49,990
mission which is a mission to study

1328
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:52,359
through seismological studies of mass

1329
00:57:56,130 --> 00:57:53,680
and what about the interior of the

1330
00:57:57,900 --> 00:57:56,140
payment Europeans next year also wanting

1331
00:58:00,480 --> 00:57:57,910
the exomars mission a row their first

1332
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:00,490
Rover to go to Mars december this year

1333
00:58:06,780 --> 00:58:02,650
we've got the japanese mission Akkad

1334
00:58:09,150 --> 00:58:06,790
Suki hopefully arriving at Venus there's

1335
00:58:11,550 --> 00:58:09,160
another missions going off to asteroids

1336
00:58:12,970 --> 00:58:11,560
got rosetta mission that's still ongoing

1337
00:58:15,150 --> 00:58:12,980
in orbit

1338
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:15,160
the comet childermass gotta Semenko

1339
00:58:19,930 --> 00:58:17,450
there's so much happening there we've

1340
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:19,940
never a dull moment we're 24-7 talking

1341
00:58:24,010 --> 00:58:21,530
to space bar early thank you for all

1342
00:58:26,770 --> 00:58:24,020
that CSIRO has done thank you very much

1343
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:26,780
ok Nagel hope to talk to you again

1344
00:58:47,710 --> 00:58:45,760
our friends from the Canberra skeptics

1345
00:58:50,859 --> 00:58:47,720
would like you to know they are holding

1346
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:50,869
an evening with joe nickell on thursday

1347
00:58:56,590 --> 00:58:53,330
the twenty seconds of October 2015 at

1348
00:58:59,980 --> 00:58:56,600
six pm at the Copeland theatre building

1349
00:59:02,620 --> 00:58:59,990
25 kingsley street at amu now this is

1350
00:59:05,140 --> 00:59:02,630
free for members but only five dollars

1351
00:59:07,570 --> 00:59:05,150
for non-members canberra skeptics is

1352
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:07,580
delighted to present a Q&A with one of

1353
00:59:12,010 --> 00:59:09,200
the leading figures in the skeptical

1354
00:59:14,050 --> 00:59:12,020
movement John Nichol Joe is being called

1355
00:59:16,690 --> 00:59:14,060
the modern sherlock holmes and the real

1356
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:16,700
life Scully Joe has spent his life being

1357
00:59:21,790 --> 00:59:19,250
an investigator of historical paranormal

1358
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:21,800
and forensic mysteries myths and hoaxes

1359
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:24,490
for further information please visit

1360
00:59:51,970 --> 00:59:50,349
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1361
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:51,980
zone and I'm sorry Joe that the Chinese

1362
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:53,450
duck with the pickled vegetables didn't

1363
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:55,910
quite work out this planned and I'm

1364
00:59:58,539 --> 00:59:57,170
sorry you're going to have to work out

1365
01:00:01,870 --> 00:59:58,549
how to clean the ceiling in your kitchen

1366
01:00:03,970 --> 01:00:01,880
and the floor and the cabin but the

1367
01:00:06,190 --> 01:00:03,980
peanut mochi balls are pretty good they

1368
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:06,200
are fantastic how fantastic gets one of

1369
01:00:08,470 --> 01:00:07,490
the benefits of living in Sydney we have

1370
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:08,480
access to all this wonderful

1371
01:00:13,529 --> 01:00:12,079
international food hmm that must be we

1372
01:00:17,049 --> 01:00:13,539
should have another podcast for that

1373
01:00:19,359 --> 01:00:17,059
food podcast what an idea the skeptical

1374
01:00:21,759 --> 01:00:19,369
foodie podcast or something where we can

1375
01:00:23,650 --> 01:00:21,769
eat all of the msg that we want no no we

1376
01:00:27,539 --> 01:00:23,660
no ill effects because we know that it's

1377
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:27,549
not harmful and gluten everything ah

1378
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:29,839
could you imagine how that podcast would

1379
01:00:35,499 --> 01:00:32,450
work would be said rogan forum podcast

1380
01:00:37,870 --> 01:00:35,509
and awe Oh hot that one wrong and it'd

1381
01:00:39,970 --> 01:00:37,880
be all like that and be disgusting yeah

1382
01:00:41,980 --> 01:00:39,980
I don't think that that's a great idea I

1383
01:00:44,529 --> 01:00:41,990
think that's a great idea now get me up

1384
01:00:46,539 --> 01:00:44,539
on this camping so next week uh we have

1385
01:00:49,059 --> 01:00:46,549
an evidence please with you oh I'm

1386
01:00:50,349 --> 01:00:49,069
getting topped in and what's what can

1387
01:00:54,249 --> 01:00:50,359
people look forward to on the next show

1388
01:00:57,069 --> 01:00:54,259
oh I'm probably I imagine going to be

1389
01:00:59,480 --> 01:00:57,079
talking about Michael leunig the

1390
01:01:04,880 --> 01:00:59,490
cartoonist

1391
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:04,890
yes he is um he's been publishing well

1392
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:07,050
he's done several books but he gets a

1393
01:01:13,310 --> 01:01:10,650
daily I think it's daily comic in the

1394
01:01:18,020 --> 01:01:13,320
Age newspaper at the moment and he did

1395
01:01:20,540 --> 01:01:18,030
one last week that wasn't really so

1396
01:01:23,810 --> 01:01:20,550
great not so great it was basically a

1397
01:01:25,340 --> 01:01:23,820
very big antibac statement which is a

1398
01:01:26,690 --> 01:01:25,350
lot a lot of people worried a lot of

1399
01:01:28,670 --> 01:01:26,700
people dismayed that their favorite

1400
01:01:30,859 --> 01:01:28,680
cartoonist turns out to be an auntie vac

1401
01:01:32,930 --> 01:01:30,869
said anyway you go yeah he's got a

1402
01:01:35,300 --> 01:01:32,940
little bit of form there in the past he

1403
01:01:39,620 --> 01:01:35,310
has done it before but never quite this

1404
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:39,630
blatant and yeah it's sad to see it's

1405
01:01:43,730 --> 01:01:41,850
very disappointing anyway more about

1406
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:43,740
that next week hopefully some more from

1407
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:45,510
may not he's on assignment at the moment

1408
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:48,090
actually he's worries down in Victoria

1409
01:01:51,859 --> 01:01:50,400
working on a movie hope it will helping

1410
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:51,869
doing interviews on a movie so that's

1411
01:01:55,340 --> 01:01:53,010
very exciting don't believe that's

1412
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:55,350
actually with Tim Tim Ferguson yeah and

1413
01:01:59,870 --> 01:01:57,570
don't forget folks to go to Maynard calm

1414
01:02:01,700 --> 01:01:59,880
today you for all of maynards crazy

1415
01:02:03,740 --> 01:02:01,710
podcasts like bunga bunga it's quite a

1416
01:02:06,050 --> 01:02:03,750
lot of fun it is it's a lot of fun hello

1417
01:02:07,910 --> 01:02:06,060
domain out if you're listening alright

1418
01:02:10,099 --> 01:02:07,920
so that's all from this week Joe again

1419
01:02:11,390 --> 01:02:10,109
thank you very much and thank you think

1420
01:02:13,340 --> 01:02:11,400
ink in the national geographic channel

1421
01:02:15,890 --> 01:02:13,350
here in Australia for helping us get to

1422
01:02:17,570 --> 01:02:15,900
see the fabulous neil degrasse tyson and

1423
01:02:20,540 --> 01:02:17,580
Joe I've got some interesting news for

1424
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:20,550
people living in Sydney if you want to

1425
01:02:27,230 --> 01:02:24,090
hear me talk about how I produce the

1426
01:02:30,290 --> 01:02:27,240
skeptic zone I'm giving a lecture a talk

1427
01:02:34,370 --> 01:02:30,300
at the Sydney podcasters meetup group

1428
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:34,380
now that's at meetup com / podcasting

1429
01:02:39,470 --> 01:02:37,170
hyphen Sydney or Google Sydney

1430
01:02:43,030 --> 01:02:39,480
podcasters and meet up ah this is on

1431
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:43,040
Monday the 31st of august so pretty soon

1432
01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:47,010
630pm at the Chippendale hotel and you

1433
01:02:52,250 --> 01:02:48,630
just head downstairs at the Chippendale

1434
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:52,260
held hotel and that's at 87 Abercrombie

1435
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:55,170
street in Chip and Dale so yeah if you

1436
01:02:59,150 --> 01:02:56,640
want to come along join that meetup

1437
01:03:00,890 --> 01:02:59,160
group will just come along I hope to

1438
01:03:03,890 --> 01:03:00,900
give an interesting talk about how I

1439
01:03:06,830 --> 01:03:03,900
make the skeptics on each wing you often

1440
01:03:08,420 --> 01:03:06,840
wonder don't you Joe I do indeed well I

1441
01:03:09,980 --> 01:03:08,430
think I'm ready for a good lie down Joe

1442
01:03:12,530 --> 01:03:09,990
it's been a big couple of days and thank

1443
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:12,540
you again but for this week this is

1444
01:03:16,100 --> 01:03:13,290
Richard saw

1445
01:03:22,310 --> 01:03:16,110
and Joe alabaster signing off from

1446
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:22,320
Sydney Australia you've been listening

1447
01:03:28,340 --> 01:03:24,810
to the skeptics own podcast visit our

1448
01:03:30,590 --> 01:03:28,350
website at wwc a petting zoo TV for

1449
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:30,600
contacts an archive of all episodes

1450
01:03:37,130 --> 01:03:35,010
since 2008 and our online store please

1451
01:03:40,460 --> 01:03:37,140
support the skeptic zone by following us

1452
01:03:43,450 --> 01:03:40,470
on twitter at skeptic zone liking us on

1453
01:03:45,830 --> 01:03:43,460
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1454
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:45,840
you can also show your support by

1455
01:03:52,220 --> 01:03:48,480
subscribing via paypal for as little as

1456
01:03:54,260 --> 01:03:52,230
99 cents a week the skeptic zone is an

1457
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:54,270
independent production the views and

1458
01:03:58,550 --> 01:03:56,370
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

1459
01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:58,560
and not necessarily those of Australian

1460
01:04:16,630 --> 01:04:01,440
skeptically or any other skeptical

1461
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:20,150
derp derp derp that should be than you

1462
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:24,570
think hello and welcome to the skeptics

1463
01:04:30,890 --> 01:04:26,160
are an episode number three hundred and

1464
01:04:32,450 --> 01:04:30,900
slow little hollow home hahaha there's